Meet David Becerra the New Divisional Dean of Social Work Part II

James Sherpa: This episode is a continuation of the conversation between Jacoba Rock and Divisional Dean David Becerra from the School of Social Work. Now enjoy BroncoTales. 

Jacoba Rock: All right, let’s shift a bit, if we can, to talking about leadership. So you’ve talked about your research experience and interests. You’ve talked about how you came into social work from a kind of practice interest in the schools and in immigration. But in terms of leadership, what draws you to be a leader in this work? And what are you bringing into leadership? 

David Becerra: That’s a good question because if you had asked me when I started my academic career that I was gonna eventually be a divisional dean of the School of Social Work, I would have said, you’re crazy. Because that was never anything that was of remote interest to me. I just wanted to teach and do my research, and those are the only things that I wanted to focus on. But I was really fortunate to have really good directors in my career who gave me different opportunities to be involved in different leadership roles along the way, eventually becoming the associate director of the School of Social Work at Arizona State. And that opened my eyes to different ways of thinking.

Before, it’s easy to–as a faculty member, you can complain about the way things are and why we aren’t doing this and why we aren’t doing that? Or we can be involved in trying to make the change happen. And so I thought it was time to put up or shut up kind of way and so. But I really like working in teams. And what I enjoy a lot is kind of bringing people together to address issues or to have a goal in mind, and we’re gonna work together to accomplish this goal. And so being in leadership positions, that’s how I see things, right? I don’t see myself as, you know, I’m by myself gonna lead us to the promised land. It’s like, what can I do to facilitate and bring us together to accomplish the goals that we wanna accomplish as a school? 

And so that’s my approach to leadership is to think about it in a collective way. And like, yes, I know ultimately that those decisions are going to be mine, but I’m gonna do them with the input of the faculty and the students and the staff and everybody. Because I think that’s the best way to approach things, is to kind of take everybody’s viewpoint into consideration and to see ourselves as we’re all working on this together. And that we’re all essential pieces to this larger machine puzzle, however you wanna describe it. Because oftentimes people get divided into camps, like, oh, this is, these are the staff, and this is the faculty, and these are the students. And like, yes, we have some connection, or we kind of see ourselves as kind of loosely aligned in the school of social work. 

But no, we’re all essential pieces, and we can’t function without each other. So how can we bring everybody together to accomplish these goals? And that’s the way I approach things. And I think that leadership is really important because if you have a bad leader, things can go horribly, right? But I tell–I used to tell faculty members all the time that, you know, directors come and go, right? The faculty members are the ones who set the tone for the way that the school is going to function long-term because they’re the ones who usually are there the longest.

And so if you have a strong faculty, then you can overcome a bad leader. But if you have a really good leader and are working with the faculty, I think that creates such like a dynamic energy that you can accomplish a lot of things. And so I think that…you know, in the things that I’ve learned over the different leadership experiences that I’ve had have just helped me to…really appreciate the expertise and the experience that people have and to value everybody’s knowledge and viewpoints and perspectives. We might not always agree, but we have to understand that we’re like–need to work on these things together.

And, being, you know, even the term like leader makes me a little bit uncomfortable being in the position that I am. I just feel that…like my goal is to make us all seem like we’re one school, even though we have different components to it. It’s harder and harder because we have here at Boise State, we have a program in Coeur d’Alene, a program in Twin Falls, an online program, a face-to-face program, a VSW program, and an MSW program. We’re not even housed in the same buildings. So, I think by that nature, we feel separated and disconnected, but we need to–I think my role is to try to figure out how we can start seeing ourselves as one school that has different components to it, and that we’re all essential to making the students have the successful outcomes. Then, ultimately have improved our communities. 

Jacoba Rock: So you’ve talked about getting communities involved and learning from communities around Idaho. Just as one example, about what we need to be doing as a school, and how to improve. And also, you know, creating dialogue and more cohesion within the school in order for us to be effective. So in this way, you’re really–as a leader, like modeling, you know, value for voice and hearing perspectives. So, I appreciate that. Are there other kinds of steps that you have planned in order to approach your leadership goals? 

David Becerra: Well, the biggest thing, you know, similar to what I’ve mentioned before, is just listening to people and talking to faculty, staff, students about what they see are the issues and the strengths in the school of social work. And then for community members, you know, also like, how do you perceive Boise State University? You know, talking to students at community colleges, what are the challenges of–like we know in general, the challenges, right? But what specific challenges do you face in transitioning from community college to Boise State? So again, just trying to get a sense of the issues and needs in the community, and then working collectively to try to figure out ways to address them.

Again, my approach is just trying to talk to as many people as possible to get a sense of what the issues are. And again, not that I have all of the answers, but so listening to everybody or as many people as possible. I think it’s important because it’s easy to assume in academia or–you know, you look at studies. And yes, it’s important to do that. But sometimes you just need to talk to the people in your actual community to hear what the issues are. So, I think that in my role is to make as many connections as possible and to see–when I was looking at a lot of the material for Boise State and then the school social work, it’s very much about–I’m not saying it’s wrong, right? But it’s very much focused on what happens in the university. 

For me, what I like to think about is how the university and the school of social work are connected to the community. And how can we bridge that gap and divide, especially for populations who don’t traditionally access the university or view the university as something that is attainable or something that they feel connected to at all? So one example that I have is, you know, my grandfather, before he passed away, he visited me when I was at Arizona State. I took him to our building, and he was really nervous just to get into the building. He was afraid that he was going to get in trouble for being on campus. And he kept saying, I’m not supposed to be here, you know, I’m not supposed to be here. And I kept telling him, no, it’s OK, like you can be like you can be here. 

So, I don’t think that people realize how people don’t feel connected to the university or see that as something so foreign, because it’s not something that they’ve grown up with. And so being able to kind of bridge those divides. And so I think that we need to be more outward-focused and not–again, while not losing sight of the things that we need to fix and address internally. But, you know, social workers, especially, we’re going to be working in the community. So, how can we build those connections? And not just through like, oh, we have to build these connections because we need practicum sites, but because we’re building connections with communities, not just community agencies. 

Jacoba Rock: Absolutely. It sounds like at least in some way, like building some structure for communities to have a voice and to feel like our school and our programs are accessible and the university as a whole, right? Like maybe community advisory groups or research is some of it too, right? How do we engage folks who would then feel like we’re more accessible?

David Becerra: Right. 

Jacoba Rock: Yeah. And I think, you know, from my experience of some of our online MSW students, there are a number of strengths in how they are able to access that particular program, too. So hearing from people about what’s going well and what the strengths are and how to maintain those, right? While making the changes that we also need to make. What excites you about preparing for the next generation…preparing the next generation of social workers? 

David Becerra: I think the next generation of social workers is what excites me. You know, the generation that I grew up in, you know, even though…it’s just the generation now just has so much energy around, social change and social justice. To me, that’s exciting. And so, how can we–what excites me is their enthusiasm for those issues and how to address those issues. So, how can we, as a school, capture that energy so that they don’t lose it. And that they can continue to work with communities or work with individuals to kind of address a lot of our social issues. So to me, that’s exciting, right?

How can we–you know, we have certain knowledge and expertise, and they have experiences and knowledge that are totally or may be totally different than ours. And, how can we collectively come up with strategies and interventions to address a lot of the issues that are facing society? So to me, that’s really exciting because that’s why I love teaching. The students have such great energy, and I’m constantly learning new things about them. Since they’re more connected to, you know, on-the-ground issues because they’re out in the communities and working in agencies, and they can see firsthand the issues. To me, that’s really what excites me as an instructor is just to kind of get that–so, yeah, to me, that’s what’s exciting is the new generation is what is exciting to me. 

So for social work education, I think the challenge is, like I mentioned before, how do we adapt quickly given the slow process that change happens within educational systems? Like, basically, how do we keep up, right? How do we keep up with the diversity changes in the country and with the issues that are happening in the country? So that, again, our curriculum reflects those changes and those issues in a way that prepares students to then work in those communities to address those issues and promote change? So to me, like, while it’s a challenge, it is exciting, right?

There are these opportunities, and, you know, I don’t think that we– the way that the structure for social work is set up, where we have to wait–or we don’t have to wait, but we often wait for reaffirmation to make curriculum changes because that’s when it needs to happen. I think that we need to be more proactive and say, do we need to do these things because they’re gonna be for the benefit of our students and our communities, not just because our accrediting body says we need to change X. 

So to me, it’s exciting to be a part of the educational system where you can, you know, implement these changes and, again, like, harness that enthusiasm. It’s hard to…because I know it seems cheesy, but they’re just so–it’s so great to work with students because they just bring so much energy and passion to these issues. And so as an educator, as a leader, like, how do we harness that? How do we kind of basically keep up with the times in our curriculum to make sure that our curriculum reflects kind of society? So, they’re better prepared to work with different populations and different issues that maybe previous generations of social workers didn’t have to, or maybe even though they should have, didn’t. 

Jacoba Rock: Yeah. You talk about keeping up, but really, we want to be a leader, right? We want to be ahead. 

David Becerra: Yeah, that would be ideal. It does feel a little like we’re always a little bit behind. But yes, ideally, we would say this is what–we see these things as priorities. Again, set the priorities ourselves, not just because CSWE said, this is what you need to focus on. I think as a school–this is our identity as a school. What is our identity? And attract students that way. This is what we’re gonna be focused on, and this is what the skillset you’re gonna come out of. It’s not just gonna be these generic skills, which yes, you need some skills that are across-the-board types of things, but this is not just gonna be a generic program. This is gonna be a program that you’re gonna come out with these skillsets that other programs may not offer. So I think that–to me, that’s exciting. 

Jacoba Rock: That’s great. I mean, I think that’s what I love about working with students, too. And, if you take a relational approach and you’re really listening to your students, they’re teaching you as much as you’re teaching them, right? You’re teaching them social work. They’re teaching you about, you know, what’s happening in our communities and what’s happening in the world and their generations. And, you know, there’s so much diversity in some ways amongst our students, age diversity, geographical diversity, and different life experiences that you’re learning from them. But even that, even the life experience is changing so quickly, right? You know, what I learned from my students about their life experience five years ago is completely different now because of what we’ve all been through together, but also differently. We’ve experienced it differently, right? 

David Becerra: Together separately, differently. 

Jacoba Rock: Yeah, yeah. So it’s, yeah, it’s a lot of trying to keep up for me. I was hoping you maybe had a secret to keeping up. 

David Becerra: I don’t have a secret. But again, I think it goes back to what I had mentioned before, is listening. We just assume a lot when we come up with courses or curricula, and we need to listen. And I don’t think that we do that enough. 

Jacoba Rock: Do you have any specific advice for students and or faculty who are at early stages of their social work career, keeping in mind that many of our students and faculty come to this work for similar reasons that you did, you know, wanting to make changes to things that they’ve experienced in their lives, right? Sort of, what are the next steps besides being here and getting a social work degree at Boise State? 

David Becerra: I think keeping an open mind to the opportunities and possibilities because, again, I never would have pictured myself being in the position that I am. And you know, students and graduates, they’re going to have so many different opportunities because there’s such a need for social workers, for people involved in the work that we do. They’re going to have numerous opportunities and not be afraid to take advantage of those opportunities because sometimes we get–you know, if you come to mind, like, yes, I want to be a clinician, and that’s great. If that’s what you do your whole life, wonderful, but there’s going to be lots of opportunities to do other things.

And so, you know, don’t shut yourself off from those opportunities and try them because you might love them or you might not. You’re never going to know unless you try. So that would be my suggestion for students and faculty. So, again, I never thought I would be in this role. Take advantage of the opportunities that you have. Also, think about yourself as part of a larger system and your role and what you want your role to be in that system in–you know, pushing forward, promoting positive change.

You know, it’s easy as faculty members, you teach your class or your classes, and you do your research if that’s part of your portfolio. It’s easy to just keep doing the same thing over and over again. But, I think it’s important to see yourself as kind of a larger part of a larger system that–you know, what can you do to improve it? And again, listening to students because often as we move on in our careers, we’ve done things a certain way for a long time, and yeah, maybe it worked before, but the populations are different, the issues students are facing are different. So, again, have an open mind, right, because it’s different now, right?

Post-pandemic, we have to be open to things that we might have thought about before. Before, I would have never thought we needed to make sure or have an opportunity for students to join us through Zoom if they can’t or sick or those kind of things. It was just you missed class. Oh, well, like that’s it. So, you constantly have to adapt to different things. And one of the things that has helped me, and I encourage, you know, faculty members, as we talked about before, is to build a sense of collective identity and working together.

I know that when you’re doing research a lot, a lot of times it’s very individual and isolating, but I don’t like doing that. I like working in collective research teams. And so, finding out ways to connect with people who share your interests. I think it will be helpful and make you feel like kind of the work you do is more fulfilling. I think that building these like sub collectives within the larger collectives, I think, is helpful because–oh, sorry. 

Jacoba Rock: For our listeners, David keeps putting his hands on the table.

David Becerra: Sorry, yes, I talk with my hands a lot. So, I think that’s important. I think that I’ve grown a lot because of the mentors that I had. I’ve been fortunate to have great mentors. And so remember how you got to be here and help the people who are coming up behind you or after you, however you want to define it. If you had a bad experience, help the people who come after you to have a better experience. If you had a great experience, use that experience as a model that you can mentor, you know, newer faculty members.

And so again, I think we’re all in this together, and we need to figure out ways that we can support each other because it’s tough. You know, we have these internal demands and external pressures, and we need to figure out ways to support each other as faculty, as staff, as students. I think it’s really important. 

Jacoba Rock: So that sort of brings me to one of my last questions, which is one area we focus on in social work education is self-care. We have assignments and dialogues with students in order to support their use of self-care while they’re in their program and prepare for the realities of the workforce, which is that most social work jobs are very demanding, busy, and emotionally exhausting, if not otherwise. So we talk about self-care strategies. You’re also describing community care, how we care for each other and, you know, support each other. What are your views on self-care, and what do you do for self-care for fun and relaxation? 

David Becerra: Well, that’s, I think, you know, you’re right. We talk about it a lot in our courses, and I think it’s important, right? Every–like what you mentioned, social work jobs are very stressful. You know, it’s easy to get overwhelmed because our systems don’t support–we don’t have enough social workers to support the populations that need us. So, it’s easy to get overwhelmed. I think it’s important to do whatever is helpful for you. Again, I–this idea of like self-care, if you go back–if you think about populations that are more collectivist in nature, the idea of like self-care is maybe different because it’s, it’s not really self-care. It’s like family care or community care.

And so, we don’t really talk about that when we talk in our classes or in our curriculum. It’s just the self, which is a very American, westernized way of thinking about it, is me as an individual, how can I feel better? And so I would encourage us to think about how we can think about it in a more again, collective–because like just for me personally, thinking about like self-care, while I understand it’s important and people like to do certain things to take care of themselves. Often it feels very selfish because that’s not how culturally–we’re raised to think about yourself as an individual. You’re part of a family, you’re part of a community. And so thinking about, I’m going to do this–take an hour, 30 minutes to meditate or to take a walk–or that’s not something that culturally matches. 

And so I think it’s important to think about that when we’re teaching students or thinking about that in class, that it’s not always going to look the same for everybody. So again, while I understand the importance of it, everybody’s going to approach it a little bit differently. And some people might want to take a hike, a walk, meditate, or do those kinds of things. But for many people, that’s not–one, it’s not possible because of their family or time constraints, and other times, maybe culturally, it’s not relevant or fits with their cultural experience and upbringing.

So, I think we need to find ways that we can help deal with–cope with the stress that we’re facing, but the idea of only focusing on the self may not always be the best approach. And, I know that’s mostly how we teach it and how we practice it in social work, but I would push us–challenge us to think about it in a slightly different context. 

I attended a workshop yesterday, and they talked about–I thought it was great how they talked about–we often talk about compassion fatigue, but it’s not really compassion fatigue that we have. We have oppression fatigue. And so when people were constantly either experiencing oppression or encountering people–as social workers who are dealing with oppression themselves, that’s the fatigue that we feel. It’s not really compassion fatigue. We’re fatigued because we’re encountering so much oppression in society. So, again, while for some people, the individual work might be helpful for others, it just might not look the same way. And so I’d be thinking about it a little bit differently than we traditionally think about it in our social work classes. 

Jacoba Rock: I worked with a few students in the spring to do a self and community care survey. Students shared that they make some efforts to do self-care but have struggled to identify how they connect to the community in a way that’s healthy for them, and they have time for that, which is sustainable. So, we did kind of support that development. Something I also think about is, like, organizational care and how we kind of demand the self to take care of themselves when things are not set up. You know, or maybe even organizations and systems are set up to place that responsibility on you, but they’re creating circumstances where you need to do more and more of it, right? It’s not a good big picture to get back to your points about social justice. It’s not a good meso or macro approach to solving problems. 

David Becerra: We say self-care is important, but like you just said, a lot of our social systems, agencies, or organizations don’t allow that to happen. It’s basically you need to practice self-care in the little bit of time that you have left in your day after your very stressful work day, your family, and everything else. And is that doable? No. I don’t know. Maybe, maybe not. So yeah, we need to figure out ways to incorporate kind of more supportive systems or more supportive work environments so that people don’t feel so overwhelmed at first place. 

Jacoba Rock: Yeah, and that’s hard work to do, right, given the demands on our systems and the realities of the workforce. I’ve heard people give funny examples. Like in the education system of teachers are asked to stay an hour late on their jobs in order to attend a self-care workshop, but they’re missing time with their family, or maybe just time to sleep more or eat some healthy food because they’re attending this self-care training, right? So sometimes, I think we’re visiting the big picture of what we are working toward with some of these ideas and social work, so listening is part of that. 

David Becerra: Because you asked, like, what do I do? And there isn’t really anything I like to do by myself. I’m not an individual type of person. Everything I like to be with my family,  as long as I’m with my family, then I am happy. That doesn’t really matter what we’re doing. So, like, right now, when I’m not with them, because everybody, we’re all kind of spread out as we’re transitioning to different stages in our lives, that’s been a challenge. But that’s the thing, so I don’t really think about, oh, I’m gonna take a walk, I’m gonna hike, or a bike ride, it’s whatever we do, I’d like to do it as a family. 

Jacoba Rock: I just dragged my family on the hikes. You could ask any of my kids uphill, both ways. 

David Becerra: We do those things, but again, it’s not–I never do it by myself.

Jacoba Rock: Any final thoughts or other ideas you want to share? 

David Becerra: I’m just really excited to be here and, you know, excited about the opportunities that this position affords and just getting out there. Like I mentioned, the communities and getting a chance to meet everybody in the university committee, but in the larger Boise and Idaho communities in general, and the populations that we serve. I just–you know, what we talked about, I think it’s a really interesting time and very… nerve-wracking time, but also exciting for the possibilities of change. And, so I’m excited to be a part of helping shape the school and a new generation of social work students. So I’m looking forward to it.

Jacoba Rock: Great. 

James Sherpa: Thank you for listening to the BroncoTales podcast on next month’s episode. Catherine Sheets and Jenny Alderden discuss AI and healthcare and how Jenny’s research shows exciting new possibilities with this technology. Enjoy this preview, and we’ll see you there. 

Jenny Alderden: AI is being used at all of the health centers in the Valley, in the electronic health record. I think of AI as a copilot for nurses. And so we are the pilot, we’re in charge, we decide where the plane goes, but AI can be a very useful copilot.