{"id":195604,"date":"2024-03-19T11:37:01","date_gmt":"2024-03-19T17:37:01","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing\/?p=195604"},"modified":"2026-08-04T15:44:59","modified_gmt":"2026-08-04T21:44:59","slug":"rn-bs-serves-idaho-and-beyond","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing\/2024\/03\/19\/rn-bs-serves-idaho-and-beyond\/","title":{"rendered":"RN-BS serves Idaho and beyond"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Potatoes. Blue turf football field. Nursing?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you\u2019re on the east coast, these might be your thoughts about Boise, Idaho. But if Idaho is the Gem State, Boise State University is the hidden gem of nursing education. With a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/news\/2024\/01\/19\/bachelors-in-nursing-program-ranks-no-1-in-idaho\/\">top-ranked<\/a> on-campus nursing program and tailored <a href=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing-bsdnp\/\">graduate options<\/a>, Bronco Nurses stand out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image alignleft wp-image wp-image--no-caption\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1080\" height=\"1080\" src=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/81\/2024\/03\/RN-BS-nationwide-1.png\" alt=\"Continental USA map with two pushpins on opposite sides. Above it reads RN-BS: Idaho and Beyond\" class=\"wp-image-195610\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\nYou might not know we\u2019re also experts in online education.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For the last 15 years, the School of Nursing has been helping nurses earn their bachelor\u2019s degree no matter where they live. We\u2019re developing America\u2019s working nurses and supporting their well-being through tailored programming.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Students in the RN-BS Online Completion program say they love the program\u2019s flexibility, as well as our supportive faculty and advisors. But don\u2019t just take our word for it; hear it firsthand from our students across the nation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t<div class=\"panel s-wrapper site-panel site-panel--faqs top-padding--add_padding bottom-padding--add_padding\"\n\t\t\t\t data-index=\"\"\n\t\t\t\t data-js=\"panel\"\n\t\t\t\t data-type=\"faqs\"\n\t\t\t     \n\t\t\t\t data-modular-content>\n\t\n\t<div class=\"l-content--outer\">\n    <div class=\"l-content--inner\">\n        \n\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<header class=\"s-header\">\n\n                \n\n\t\t\t\t\n<h2\n\t\tclass=\"site-panel__title s-title s-title h2\"\n\t\t>\n\n\tLearn Firsthand from Two Students\n\n<\/h2>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/header>\n\t\t\n\t\n\t\n            <div class=\"faq\">\n                <div class=\"faq__content l-weighted-right\">\n                    <div class=\"faq__sidebar\">\n\n                        <form class=\"faq__search\" role=\"search\" aria-label=\"Filter List Form\">\n                            <label for=\"\" 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<h2 class=\"sidebar-tertiary__hdg\">Jump to section:<\/h2>\n                                <ul class=\"sidebar-tertiary__list\">\n                                                                            <li>\n                                            <a href=\"#\"\n                                               data-section-location=\"EST\">EST<\/a>\n                                        <\/li>\n                                                                            <li>\n                                            <a href=\"#\"\n                                               data-section-location=\"MST\">MST<\/a>\n                                        <\/li>\n                                                                            <li>\n                                            <a href=\"#\"\n                                               data-section-location=\"Talk to advisor\">Talk to advisor<\/a>\n                                        <\/li>\n                                                                    <\/ul>\n                            <\/nav>\n                                            <\/div>\n\n                    <div class=\"faq__listing\">\n                                                    <div class=\"faq__section\">\n                                                                    <div class=\"faq__section-title\" data-section-start=\"EST\"\n                                         id=\"EST\">\n                                        <h3>EST<\/h3>\n                                    <\/div>\n                                                                <div class=\"faq__question-contain\">\n                                    <div class=\"list\">\n                                                                                    <div class=\"faq__question\">\n                                                                                                    <div class=\"faq__question__title\">\n                                                        <h4 class=\"faq__question__title-item\">Tate Klacsmann<\/h4>\n                                                    <\/div>\n                                                                                                <div class=\"faq__question__answer t-content\">\n                                                    <p>Tate Klacsmann lives in New York, a state that requires nurses hold their bachelor\u2019s in nursing <a href=\"https:\/\/nursing.buffalo.edu\/news-events\/nurses-report.host.html\/content\/shared\/nursing\/articles\/nurses-report\/posts\/bsn-in-10.detail.html\">within ten years<\/a> of licensure. \u201cIt&#8217;s not a matter of if you want to go back to get a bachelor&#8217;s, it&#8217;s just a matter of when,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<p>Klacsmann browsed schools for a long time before deciding on Boise State. He wanted a recognizable state school with a well-known on-campus program.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cBoise State&#8217;s been around a long time, which I think is helpful,&#8221; he said. &#8220;It does have a really good reputation.&#8221; And like many people deciding to return to school, finances played an important role, too.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIt quickly became clear that I needed a school that either offered in-state tuition for me or was location neutral \u2013 which Boise State is \u2013 where everybody gets in-state tuition,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_195611\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-195611\" style=\"width: 301px\" class=\"wp-image wp-image--caption alignright\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-195611\" src=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/81\/2024\/03\/Head-shot-Klacsmann-by-Shannon-Greer.jpeg\" alt=\"Black and white photo of Tate Klacsmann standing with his hands in his pockets smiling.\" width=\"301\" height=\"450\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-195611\" class=\"wp-caption-text\" style=\"width: 301px\" style=\"width: 301px\">Tate Klacsmann, photo by Shannon Greer.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Klacsmann holds one bachelor\u2019s degree already and wanted a straight answer from potential schools about their required credits. But many schools don\u2019t distinguish these, offering to review his transcripts only after he\u2019d been accepted. Many other schools weren\u2019t clear about what he would actually need to graduate, \u201cand I love that Boise State was very transparent about that,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<p>In addition, Klacsman loved that he could <a href=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing-rnbs\/admission\/dual-enroll\/\">dual-enroll<\/a>, thinking that if he could even get one class out of the way, he\u2019d feel better about continuing his bachelor\u2019s after his associates. Klacsmann is currently earning his associates degree in nursing (ADN) through <a href=\"https:\/\/www.columbiagreene.edu\/academics\/programs\/nursing\/\">SUNY Columbia-Greene Community College<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>As he saw it, finishing his associates degree after three-and-a-half years only then to begin a bachelor\u2019s program would be like climbing to the top of a mountain and then finding out there\u2019s a second mountain to climb right after. It was a psychological hurdle he didn\u2019t want to have to jump, so he dual-enrolled.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cSo it&#8217;s like, \u2018Okay, I could go to this awesome school that has everything I&#8217;m looking for, and it&#8217;s going to cost me less than my own in-state tuition.\u2019 Yes, please!\u201d<\/p>\n\n                                                <\/div>\n                                            <\/div>\n                                                                                    <div class=\"faq__question\">\n                                                                                                    <div class=\"faq__question__title\">\n                                                        <h4 class=\"faq__question__title-item\">Challenges and rewards<\/h4>\n                                                    <\/div>\n                                                                                                <div class=\"faq__question__answer t-content\">\n                                                    <p>One aspect of the program that has lived up to Klacsmann\u2019s \u201chappiest expectations\u201d is his interactions with his advisor, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing\/academic-advising\/rn-bs\/\">Maura Rasmussen<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI feel like I have bugged her many times throughout this program, and she&#8217;s always gotten right back to me and been really helpful,\u201d he said. \u201cShe gave me very good advice about everything that I asked her about and needed help on. Her advice always turned out to be spot on.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Another pleasant surprise was his healthy aging course, since the material is \u201cnot really emphasized at the associate&#8217;s level,\u201d he said. \u201cI didn&#8217;t have negative expectations, but I just didn&#8217;t have any expectations. I didn&#8217;t know what I was getting into, and I ended up really liking that course.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>What\u2019s been most challenging, Klacsmann admits, is the research course. Learning to apply APA citations and formatting was overwhelming and disorienting at first.<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p>But he now happily reports, \u201cI learned quite a bit in that class.&#8221;<cite>Tate Klacsmann<\/cite><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>He ended up emailing his professor asking for a point-by-point review of his mistakes and how to correct them, which he found so instructive he \u201cactually used to refer to that email\u201d any time he couldn\u2019t recall how to do it, he said. \u201cWe don&#8217;t do a lot of research at the associate&#8217;s level, but anytime we do, I cite my things all correctly and my professors are always extremely impressed.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Given that this is his last semester, Klacsmann has been preparing for the NCLEX \u2013 the national licensing exam for registered nursing. Taking practice tests has also been rewarding as he discovers a new sense of confidence in his knowledge of the material.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI always feel like there&#8217;s so much to learn,\u201d he said. \u201cYou do so much work, and then to finally get to the test review and see it, like \u2018Oh yeah, actually I do know that!\u2019 It&#8217;s very rewarding.\u201d<\/p>\n\n                                                <\/div>\n                                            <\/div>\n                                                                            <\/div>\n                                <\/div>\n                            <\/div>\n                                                    <div class=\"faq__section\">\n                                                                    <div class=\"faq__section-title\" data-section-start=\"MST\"\n                                         id=\"MST\">\n                                        <h3>MST<\/h3>\n                                    <\/div>\n                                                                <div class=\"faq__question-contain\">\n                                    <div class=\"list\">\n                                                                                    <div class=\"faq__question\">\n                                                                                                    <div class=\"faq__question__title\">\n                                                        <h4 class=\"faq__question__title-item\">Alissa Godinez<\/h4>\n                                                    <\/div>\n                                                                                                <div class=\"faq__question__answer t-content\">\n                                                    <p>Alissa Godinez lives in Idaho and is in her final semester of the program. She earned her ADN from the College of Eastern Idaho and chose to pursue her bachelor\u2019s through the RN-BS program.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI wanted to stay local, and then on top of it, I really wanted to make sure I was going somewhere that was either AACN or CCNE accredited.\u201d<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_195613\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-195613\" style=\"width: 322px\" class=\"wp-image wp-image--caption alignright\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-195613\" src=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/81\/2024\/03\/AG-headshot-web-opt.jpg\" alt=\"Alissa Godinez wears her graduation regalia and poses on a sidewalk smiling.\" width=\"322\" height=\"450\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-195613\" class=\"wp-caption-text\" style=\"width: 322px\" style=\"width: 322px\">Alissa Godinez graduates the RN-BS program in May 2024.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing\/2023\/08\/22\/what-is-accreditation-and-why-does-it-matter\/\">Accreditation can seem difficult<\/a> to understand, but really it\u2019s a just mark of high-quality education from institutions with excellent reputations. If you earn a degree from a school that isn\u2019t accredited, and then try to continue your education at another school, those credits probably won\u2019t be accepted.<\/p>\n<p>Godinez knew she wanted to go on to graduate school after earning her bachelor\u2019s, so she selected Boise State with an eye to the future. \u201cFor me that was the biggest thing, because no [nurse practitioner] program will take you without AACN or CCNE accreditation,\u201d she said.<\/p>\n<p>Godinez took advantage of the option to dual-enroll while completing her ADN. While higher education can seem full of red tape and hoops to jump through, she found the transition into dual-enrollment \u201cso simple,\u201d she said. \u201cI did my application, I sent my transcripts over and then got an email that was like \u2018Great, okay, you can register for classes.\u2019 It was the easiest thing ever.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Godinez is also a recipient of the Tracy and Maura Rasmussen Online <a href=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing\/2022\/11\/29\/nursing-advisor-sees-student-need-and-responds-with-generosity\/\">RN-BS Memorial Scholarship<\/a>, which she learned about through an advisor\u2019s post in the RN-BS communication center dashboard.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThey are constantly posting scholarship opportunities, which is really nice,\u201d she said. \u201cWith scholarships, traditionally I\u2019m so used to having to deep dive for them, but they literally give you everything you need and you just have to take the time to do it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n                                                <\/div>\n                                            <\/div>\n                                                                                    <div class=\"faq__question\">\n                                                                                                    <div class=\"faq__question__title\">\n                                                        <h4 class=\"faq__question__title-item\">Managing time and finding support<\/h4>\n                                                    <\/div>\n                                                                                                <div class=\"faq__question__answer t-content\">\n                                                    <p>In addition to dual-enrollment, Godinez has also been working full time. Although the workload has been tough, \u201cthere was never a time at any point that I was like, \u2018There&#8217;s no way I could do this\u2019,\u201d she said. \u201cThe greatest factor is learning how to master time management, but really, it&#8217;s totally doable.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Her biggest piece of advice to anyone considering the program? \u201cSit yourself down and know your limits, and really learn to discipline yourself before you take it on,\u201d she said.<\/p>\n<p>Godinez found it most helpful to map out her coursework in a daily agenda so she knew how her time would be divided between school, work and family. Then she openly communicated with her family members and employer so everyone was on the same page about her responsibilities, which proved to be a helpful part of her support system.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIt&#8217;s been really nice to have that support externally because then you just feel like you can do it; it gives you just a little bit more motivation,\u201d she said.<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p>\u201cEveryone in the RN-BS program is so supportive, too.\u201d<cite>Alissa Godinez<\/cite><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>Godinez appreciated the program\u2019s flexibility, choosing to take as many classes as she could over the summer even though that\u2019s typically a season of relaxation. \u201cDon\u2019t get me wrong,\u201d she said, \u201cIt kind of sucked. But then again, it was kind of like, \u2018How badly do you want this?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cFor me, I wanted to get it done because I wanted to apply for graduate school at this point. So I needed to get it done.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Looking back, she now considers the ability to complete the program in only a year-and-a-half the most rewarding part of it all.<\/p>\n<p>She is especially thankful for her advisor, who Godinez says always promptly replies to her questions and makes things easy to understand.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cEven though it was all remote, I felt like the communication was just as good as if it was in person,\u201d she said. \u201cI think the team that we have for the RN-BS program is great; they&#8217;re very helpful. I think it&#8217;s just a matter of getting the answers to your questions, and they&#8217;re there to answer it. I wish I could tell everyone who&#8217;s on the verge of wanting to do this, just ask! \u2026Your advisor will be very transparent with you, it\u2019s just a matter of just asking and taking that next step.\u201d<\/p>\n\n                                                <\/div>\n                                            <\/div>\n                                                                            <\/div>\n                                <\/div>\n                            <\/div>\n                                                    <div class=\"faq__section\">\n                                                                    <div class=\"faq__section-title\" data-section-start=\"Talk to advisor\"\n                                         id=\"Talk to advisor\">\n                                        <h3>Talk to advisor<\/h3>\n                                    <\/div>\n                                                                <div class=\"faq__question-contain\">\n                                    <div class=\"list\">\n                                                                                    <div class=\"faq__question\">\n                                                                                                    <div class=\"faq__question__title\">\n                                                        <h4 class=\"faq__question__title-item\">Ready to start the program?<\/h4>\n                                                    <\/div>\n                                                                                                <div class=\"faq__question__answer t-content\">\n                                                    <p><a class=\"c-btn c-btn--border\" href=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing\/academic-advising\/rn-bs\/\">Talk to an advisor today!<\/a><\/p>\n\n                                                <\/div>\n                                            <\/div>\n                                                                            <\/div>\n                                <\/div>\n                            <\/div>\n                                            <\/div>\n                <\/div>\n\n            <\/div>\n\n        \n\t\n\t    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Potatoes. Blue turf football field. Nursing? If you\u2019re on the east coast, these might be&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3526,"featured_media":195610,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[371,361],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-195604","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-rn-bs","category-son"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v28.2 (Yoast SEO v28.2) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>RN-BS serves Idaho and beyond - School of Nursing<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"For the last 15 years, Boise State has been helping nurses earn their BSN no matter where they live. Hear the experiences of two students.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing\/2024\/03\/19\/rn-bs-serves-idaho-and-beyond\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"RN-BS serves Idaho and beyond\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Potatoes. Blue turf football field. Nursing? If you\u2019re on the east coast, these might be your thoughts about Boise, Idaho. But if Idaho is the Gem State,\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing\/2024\/03\/19\/rn-bs-serves-idaho-and-beyond\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"School of Nursing\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/BoiseStateSON\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2024-03-19T17:37:01+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2026-08-04T21:44:59+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.boisestate.edu\/nursing\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/81\/2024\/03\/RN-BS-nationwide-1-1080x630.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1080\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"630\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Katherine Denagy\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@BoiseStateNurse\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@BoiseStateNurse\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Katherine Denagy\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"8 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/2024\\\/03\\\/19\\\/rn-bs-serves-idaho-and-beyond\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/2024\\\/03\\\/19\\\/rn-bs-serves-idaho-and-beyond\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Katherine Denagy\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/0ff5e5de1dadcc984dc81b9a0f9e5162\"},\"headline\":\"RN-BS serves Idaho and beyond\",\"datePublished\":\"2024-03-19T17:37:01+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2026-08-04T21:44:59+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/2024\\\/03\\\/19\\\/rn-bs-serves-idaho-and-beyond\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":144,\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/2024\\\/03\\\/19\\\/rn-bs-serves-idaho-and-beyond\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/sites\\\/81\\\/2024\\\/03\\\/RN-BS-nationwide-1.png\",\"articleSection\":[\"RN-BS\",\"SON\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/2024\\\/03\\\/19\\\/rn-bs-serves-idaho-and-beyond\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/2024\\\/03\\\/19\\\/rn-bs-serves-idaho-and-beyond\\\/\",\"name\":\"RN-BS serves Idaho and beyond - School of Nursing\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/2024\\\/03\\\/19\\\/rn-bs-serves-idaho-and-beyond\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/2024\\\/03\\\/19\\\/rn-bs-serves-idaho-and-beyond\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/sites\\\/81\\\/2024\\\/03\\\/RN-BS-nationwide-1.png\",\"datePublished\":\"2024-03-19T17:37:01+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2026-08-04T21:44:59+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.boisestate.edu\\\/nursing\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/0ff5e5de1dadcc984dc81b9a0f9e5162\"},\"description\":\"For the last 15 years, Boise State has been helping nurses earn their BSN no matter where they live. 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